According to my admittedly limited research, it seems that Stateside we are trending toward a recognition of the benefits of co-parenting and shared custody, and trending away from the historical presumption that one parent (usually the mother) has primary custody, while Dad gets visitation.  Generally, co-parenting is considered impossible–and sole custody advisable–with high-conflict parents (e.g., those who don’t communicate and can’t get along on even the most basic level, those who allow their animosity for each other to trump the best needs/interests of their kids).  The Australian mandate would seem to have things backwards.

What say you?  Should co-parenting be legally mandated, even among high-conflict parents?

After reading your website, I would love your opinion on this… My boyfriend has been divorced for almost 8 years. His children are 11 and 12. He lives 50 minutes away from them in the town where they lived as a family. His ex and kids live here in my city. We have been seeing each other for almost 5 months now. The problem for me is that he and his ex has an unusual relationship in the eyes of most. They have been good friends for the past few years and he comes to town to see his kids and just spends the night at their house. His ex does her own thing, but he spends the night there!

So I cannot be integrated into his life with his kids on those weekends bc he is at his ex wife’s home and even though she and I are on ok terms, I don’t want to go hang out at her house. Is this kind of thing normal in your opinion b/c I do not want him spending the night over there, but he says he has to so that his kids can stay in town on his weekends and still do their activities. She is not currently dating anyone and he has NEVER dated anyone after she cheated and moved away.

A few years ago she said to me “I think you and my ex would really like each other!” She was dating someone at the time. Now we are dating and she is going around to anyone who will listen and telling them what a hard time she is having with it…Your thoughts??

Thanks for writing, Sharon. This being election time, the word “constituents” come to mind. In your situation, there are four different constituents whose needs and wants sometimes coincide and sometimes conflict. Let’s consider the questions you raise from the perspective of each.

The Kids This “constituency” is top priority. That’s not to say that what kids want always trumps what parents want–if this was the case, the kids would likely want their parents to still be together. That aside, my guess is that the kids enjoy having their dad stay with them at their primary residence. So from their perspective, the arrangement you describe is only a good thing.

From what I’ve been told and what I’ve read, many kids (even into adulthood) harbor fantasies (sometimes secret) of their parents someday, somehow getting back together. While parents should never toy with kids’ emotions and behave in ways that might suggest a possibility of reconciliation where there isn’t one, I think such fantasies by themselves are normal and shouldn’t be messed with. It’s tempting to want to do the tough-love thing, and try to send the kids a firm “no way, no how” message about reconciliation, but it’s not advisable. I’ll bet it thrills your boyfriend’s kids to see their parents interact casually and cordially, even just in passing while Dad is there and Mom is “doing her own thing”.

Still thinking about this from the kids’ perspective, what’s the alternative to Dad staying at Mom’s house? They could travel 2 hours round-trip to Dad’s house and miss out on their weekend activities, or hang-out with dad a hotel or someone else’s house–all to accommodate you, someone who has only been on the scene for 5 months. Meanwhile, they’ve been doing things this way, presumably for 8 years. Neither of these alternatives will help the kids to see you as a positive new addition to their lives.

You didn’t mentioned if you’ve met the kids yet or not, or if you get to see them at other times outside of their mother’s house. If you haven’t met them and/or aren’t seeing them regularly, is it because your boyfriend doesn’t feel that it’s the right time yet? Are you two on the same page about this? If not, then the real issue isn’t about his ex wife’s house at all; it’s about the different expectations you and your boyfriend have about this aspect of the relationship (integrating you into the kids’ lives).

If you haven’t already, have a very specific conversation with your boyfriend about your desire to be integrated in this way, and where you all need to be in your relationship for that to happen. I would advise asking questions and lots of listening, not making demands or ultimatums.

Your Boyfriend’s Ex Actually, I have a challenge for you. Try this: Instead of thinking of her as “my boyfriend’s ex who cheated on him and moved away”, think of her and refer to her as “my boyfriend’s co-parent” or “Billy and Susie’s mom”. That’s truly who she is to you now and going forward, if you end up with your boyfriend long term. Who she is is and how the two of you interact is going to influence your relationship with her children, which in turn will influence your relationship with their father, for better or for worse. You can’t control what she does; just do what you can to make it “for better.”

It doesn’t sound like you have a problem with her per se, just that it seems that you were acquaintances (friends?), she suggested you date her ex, and now she’s backpedaling. Here’s what I think: Divorce is hard. For everybody. Even for the person who filed for it. Even if she cheated, that doesn’t mean that she doesn’t have regrets, doesn’t sometimes look at your boyfriend and wonder “if only…” She’s entitled to those feelings, however conflicting, just as the kids are entitled to their reconciliation fantasies. You should only concern yourself if she begins acting on those feelings, in which case, I would hope your boyfriend would draw some boundaries.

So, let her tell people that she’s having a hard time with her ex dating the woman that she set him up with. She thought she could handle it, but it’s harder than she thought it would be. After all, to her knowledge he hasn’t dated anyone in 8 years, so she’s probably gotten used to life being a certain way. Perhaps she just needs time to adjust to your presence in their lives. It sounds like your boyfriend does too. Which brings me to…

Your Boyfriend Eight years dateless is a long time! Pull up a chair, Sharon, and get comfortable, because you are going to have to cut this man some slack. If you don’t want to be just the “trial” girlfriend whom he dated to get his feet wet before jumping into the deep end of the dating pool, be patient. That’s not to say “be a doormat” or that anything goes, but do give him and your relationship some time to mature. It’s a enough for him to be navigating a relationship with someone after all this time, but having to factor his kids into the equation? That’s a challenge for anyone post-divorce, but after 8 years, he and the kids, and their mom have settled into some routines. He has to decide when the time is right to change those routines, and if you’re the person for whom he’s willing to make those changes.

Remember that he’s constantly thinking on two levels: his relationship with you and his relationship with his kids. It’s a balancing act, and a good father would never let the scales tip against his children’s well-being. Be patient as he’s figuring this out, but also be clear about your needs and desires. Best-case scenario: it’s all a matter of timing. He may want the same things you want in terms of your being in the kids’ lives…just not right this moment. I can only conjecture however, since I don’t know what he’s thinking.

You I saved you for last, not because you don’t matter in this situation, but because from the sounds of your letter, I bet you sometimes feel like you’re dead last in your boyfriend’s eyes.

And maybe your friends or family are whispering to you that there’s Something still going on between your boyfriend and his ex. Maybe they can’t fathom a good, platonic post-divorce situation such as your boyfriend and his ex seem to have established. I can speak from experience and say that it is indeed possible, despite what those naysayers think. If YOU feel confident that there isn’t Something going on between your boyfriend and his ex, then great; that’s all that matters.

But if you have doubts about their relationship, decide if they are based on your residual feelings of “that’s not normal!”, or if it’s based on something solid like…oh, I don’t know, they sleep in the same bed or walk around in front of each other in various states of undress or have pet names for each other–anything that would be an actual red flag.

If there are no red flags, then the onus is on you to come to terms with the fact that you are now involved with a committed co-parenting family. Are you up for the challenge? If you haven’t already, check out this interview for some helpful advice from someone who’s been there.

Is it that his ex doesn’t want you at the house with your boyfriend, or are you welcome there but you don’t want to go? If it’s the former, there’s not much you can do about that; after all it’s her house, and you can always see your boyfriend on the alternate weekends, and with the kids in public places or at your house. If it’s the latter, then you have to decide what’s more important: Avoiding his ex, or spending time with him and the kids?

However…if you know she’s having a hard time with you dating her ex, I would suggest steering clear of her house until she gives you or your boyfriend an explicit invitation for you to come over. Do you have the kind of relationship with her where you can meet for coffee and talk things out?

You asked if this kind of overnight arrangement is normal; it’s certainly not unheard of amongst parents who are co-parenting successfully. Some co-parenting and blended families vacation together and spend holidays together, including overnights, with or without new spouses and significant others.

Successful co-parenting requires sacrifice, from all constituencies. Your boyfriend’s kids don’t get to see their dad as often as they would like. Their mom is uncomfortable with the idea of her ex moving on. Your boyfriend may feel a tug-of-war between you and his kids, even if that’s not your intention. Your sacrifice, at the moment, means not seeing your boyfriend on certain weekends, or seeing him in, from your perspective, a less-than-ideal setting. Nobody is getting everything they want. At the end of the day, the grown-ups must bear as much of this burden as possible.

Finally, if your boyfriend is committed to or decides to commit to a serious relationship with you, then in time I believe you all can work this situation out such that it won’t feel like such a heavy burden to you. But I must say that in my opinion, 5 months is still “young” in relationship terms, especially when you factor in the issue of your boyfriend not having dated for 8 years. You can take that with a grain of salt, however, since my boyfriend and I didn’t introduce our children to our relationship until we had been dating for over a year. My children’s future stepmother didn’t meet them until after she and their father had been dating for a few years. In both cases, we didn’t make these introductions until we were as certain as we could be that this new person was The One.

Of course, many people integrate children into their new relationships far sooner than that and it works just fine. Every family is different, and in every case, the parents must decide the best timing for incorporating their kids into their dating lives. Support your boyfriend as he considers this question. It will require sacrifice on your part, but let him know that you join him and his children’s mother in their commitment to putting their kids first.

One recent set of surprises inspired me to write this, my first solo post, for CoParenting101.  As you may have seen elsewhere on this site, I am recently engaged to be married.  In the weeks leading up to my engagement, I told friends and colleagues of my plans for for the event - I mentioned how I had told my children, spoken to Sherry’s mom and told my own parents.  Almost without exception, these folks, after offering their heartfelt congratulations, asked in the gravest and most concerned tones, “What did Deesha say?” I was caught up short each time it happened.

Now I could be accused of being a naif when it comes to relationship matters.  It wouldn’t be the first time.  However, in this case, it was not the notion that a person might be upset by word of their ex-spouse’s pending nuptials that took me aback.  Songs have been written about that exact situation.  No, I was surprised by such a question from folks that know me well and are quite aware of my unusually amicable relationship with Deesha.  From coordinating kids activities on almost a daily basis to taking a vacation as a family each year to playing cards with our respective significant others, Deesha and I had managed to forge a very good post-divorce relationship, by any account.  It struck me, then, that something more was going on here.  Clearly, despite all the evidence to the contrary, the expectation was that an “ex” WILL lose their mind in these situations, positive relationship notwithstanding.

Did they think that Deesha and I were misrepresenting and exaggerating our post-divorce relationship?  Did they assume that all bets were off once remarriage was involved?  Deesha had met, Sherry.  Was she harboring some ill feelings toward Sherry that I didn’t know about?  All this and more was running through my head as I dialed Deesha’s number.

[Me]  “Hey, its me.  Are you planning to get crazy once Sherry and I get married?”  (Yes, I went there.)

[Deesha, pausing clearly caught off guard] “No!  Why would you ask that?”

[Me]  (Pause.) “I don’t know exactly.  I think you are supposed to get crazy.  Everybody says so!”

I feel the need to say at this point that I do not take lightly those terrible situations that exist, where the ex does get crazy.  Or those where the speed or recklessness or other undesirable circumstances of the remarriage are hurtful or upsetting to an ex-spouse.  Suffice it to say, my incredulity was due solely to the specifics of my situation and what I assumed folks would understand.

In any event, the whole thing got me to thinking about the “relationship” part of the “co-parenting relationship”.  It seems to me that, while the idea of putting children first is the proverbial horse that pulls the co-parenting cart, the relationship between co-parents is very much like the wheels.  If Deesha and I put our children’s needs first, they will be well served.  They will know and feel that we love them and care for them and put their needs at the top of our priority list.  Like the horse, our commitent to putting the kids first is what sets the direction of our family’s cart and makes it move.  However, as those of you trying to coparent with a jerk understand quite well, if you have no relationship at all with your co-parent, it can be more difficult to put your child’s needs first.  The horse can pull the cart in a given direction, but without wheels, the cart will move very slowly and the ride will be rough.  Some would say that working on the co-parenting relationship is a direct consequence of putting your child’s needs first.

I am blessed to be co-parenting with someone that I actually like and with whom I can say I have a friendship.  I am made well aware almost everyday that my situation is very unusual. My assumption that others understood this relationship and how it flowed naturally from our fierce commitment to our children is what made their questions such a surprise to me.  Hopefully, someday, it will be taken as a given that children come first and that civility, cordiality and cooperation between co-parents after divorce is the rule rather than the exception.  If that day ever comes, then questions like “What did your ‘ex’ say” after you announce your engagement will be much rarer and that would be a most pleasant surprise!

Before you met Mike, you used to say that you would never date a man with kids. Why did you have that “rule”? Why did you ultimately break it?

I had that rule because I’d seen many a friend and family member go throurh dramatic situations with irate “baby’s moms” and insecure “baby’s dads”–men and women who didn’t know how to keep the relationship boundaries appropriate. I didn’t want to have to deal with the hassle of some woman I’d never met putting constraints and restrictions on my relationship. I didn’t want the stress, strain and toll that it takes on the guy.

The reason I ended up breaking that rule was because there wasn’t any of that drama with Michael. There wasn’t any of the “baby’s momma drama” or the “baby’s daddy” issues. It was just a mother and father trying their darndest to make one of the most difficult decisions affecting their children work as smoothly as possible. And, while there were uncertainties, those thoughts and feelings were brought to the forefront with sensitivity, respect and with an understanding that decisions in the end were going to be made in the absolute best interest of the children.

You dated Mike for a few years before he introduced the girls to you, and initially, it was as a friend. Why did you take this slow approach?

I personally wanted to make sure that everyone was happy and comfortable. I didn’t want the girls to feel like I was moving in and trying to take their father away from them. I wanted them to understand that as much as I cared about their father, I also respected his relationship with them. I wanted them to understand that I’d never put the relationship between us before or over their relationship with him.

As you know, Mike and I resolved not to subject our kids to the potential revolving door of our dating lives; we decided early on that the kids wouldn’t meet anyone unless we felt strongly that this person was The One, and not until the time was right in terms of the girls’ adjustment to the divorce. Still, at times we both found it weird to essentially “hide” our respective serious relationships from the kids. Now we can sit back and chuckle at all the espionage we did, but at the time, was that frustrating for you?

YES!! I respected the fact that home location [Mike and I currently live a block away from each other] was very important for Michael. I also understood the need to have him as close as possible to girls. There were times especially early on where the girls were struggling with the divorce. Dates were post-poned or cancelled, outtings were regulated to where the girls were at the moment. Even simple things like walking to the house or taking the dog for a walk were feats of agility becase we didn’t want the girls to know about our relationship prior to their and our readiness.I could also see the wear and tear of this 007, secret life on Michael too.

I think the most frustrating thing was feeling (at times) like I was in the passenger seat of my relationship. What helped me through was being able to express to Michael my feelings and having him understand the unique situation I was in. He always let me know that while the well-being of his daughters was of uttermost importance, I was very special to him too and that the ultimate decision to stay or leave was mine. What also helped was the respect that I had for how the two of you were approaching your divorce and the sacrifices you both were making regarding your own personal happiness.

You and I both have friends and family shaking their heads at the fact that we get along so well, that–dare I say it?–we’re friends. I am proud of the fact that we skipped right over mere civility to the point of hanging out together informally, socializing, and dealing with the daily minutiae of parenting and childcare. But as you know, one doubting Thomas in particular went so far as to refer to the interactions among the four of us [including my boyfriend] as our “twisted” lifestyle. What do you wish disbelieving folks could understand about what we’re trying to do–besides the fact that we are NOT swingers?

For me the biggest thing that I’d want those “doubting Thomases” to understand is that it’s all about the kids. The kids watch, do, ponder, and reflect your every action. Part of the reason that I was so accepted by the girls is because we adults were able to get along, genuinely. I’m not saying that everyone has to be friends, however kids know when mom or dad doesn’t like their ex-partner’s significant other. As the biological parents, your input and reaction, no matter how subtle, will and does affect the children and, therefore, the relationship with the new partner.

I don’t have any children and this upcoming marriage with Michael will be my only one, and if you had been mean or hurtful or even just indifferent, that would have been a huge stumbling block regarding my ability to get to know the girls and vice versa. The girls needed to see that even with this hurtful thing called “divorce” entering their lives, the adults in their lives care more about their (the girls) happiness than about making ex-spouses and their partners unhappy.

What advice would you give others, particularly women, who are dating someone who is divorced with children?

That there is a time and place for everthing. If you’re two months into the relationship, and the divorce is still fresh, you don’t need to join everyone at the school play. It might be a little too soon for that. And don’t feel offended if he doesn’t ask you. Again, especially if the relationship is new, it may not be the best time to introduce the relationship to the rest of the world.

Until your own relationship with the children has been built and cultivated DON’T EVER BAD-MOUTH EITHER PARENT!! There will be time for joking and fun. The beginning of the relationship is a tender time for everyone and you need to be aware that, for a while, you are the outsider. Just because your partner dogs his ex out doesn’t mean that you get to. The last thing the kids need to overhear is you co-hating on their mother.

No matter what your opinion is about your partners ex, she is still the mother of his children and should be respected. If you feel that she’d encroaching on boundaries, you need to address you concerns in a sensitive maner with your partner and have him pose the issue to her. He’s the one with the relationship with her and knows best how to address issues concerning her.

Be aware that everyone in the situation has a little scar tissue. It takes time to get over hurts and disappointments. He may not open up to you immediately, but the more you’re willing to understand his situation and communicate openly, the more he’ll open up to you.

The most important bit of advice I’d give would be to trust that your partner knows his children.Take his cues and advice regarding how to handle his kids: their likes, dislikes, how to approach them. Even if he doesn’t know their favorite TV show, he still has a better knowledge of them than you do.

Last and perhaps most important question. The next Spades game: Your place or mine?

LOL!! Yours, until we find a house.

Also, some of you told me privately that you want to share your stories as adult children of divorce.  If you send ‘em, I’ll post ‘em.  It’s not too late.  Click on “Share Your Story” or send an email to deesha AT deeshaphilyaw DOT com.

One day the house was standing on stilts in a Cambodian village. The next, only half was there.

The wife will keep the half that is standing, while the husband has carried off bits and pieces of the home to put them up in a nearby field…”

Divorcing Cambodian Couple Saws House in Half to Avoid Court Costs